Fuse blowing Shopsmith. Motors do draw more amps when cold. Before I sent the Shopsmith back, I would have an electrician check the outlet and wiring. I would assume you need at least a 20 amp fuse. You could try plugging it in to another outlet and see what happens. Sometimes it is nothing more than a loose connection, but an electrician to test the circuit and tell you just where the problem is. I can not speak for Shopsmith, but they are a reputable company and I am sure would stand behind their product.
If your unit is blowing fuses it could be a number of things.
The SS510 uses a 1-1/2HP 110VAC single-phase motor. Normally newer construction homes (built in the last 20 years or so) will have a 15Amp breaker. This is about the minimum for the SS motor. there are several possible reasons you could be having problems:
Good luck! Dan
NOTE: Turn speed control down BEFORE shutting it off. The speed control should not be moved while the machine is off.
I bought my 510 a year ago, and the manual specifically said to use a 15 amp circuit. After having just rewired my basement and garage for 20 amp circuits, I was very disappointed at having to use less power . . . :-) Peter Hernes
I've never had any problems when going from low speed to high speed with the power off. Now I don't make a habit of it, in fact I've only done it 2 or 3 times. This is not a recommendation that you change speeds with the power off, but it can be done. Going from high speed to low speed with the power off is impossible (you would break the speed adjuster first). Also, I've never tripped a breaker when starting up on high speed. (I'm terrible about remembering to change to low speed before shutting down.) In fact, I've tripped the breaker only once in the 7 or so years I've owned my 500 and that was when ripping pressure treated (wet/green) lumber. I just got the list of Shopnotes titles. Several articles interest me very much, and I am anxious to see them on the web. - les
FWIW, I wouldn't even THINK of using the SS to rip lumber without a good set of anti-kickback/hold-down wheels. Even with the little feather board and push stick that SS provides, trying to get consistent rips SAFELY is just asking for trouble. I can't think of any way to mount an antikickback device directly to the little rip fence that comes with the SS - the fence is just too low to do you much good. I found that a good hardwood board, about 6 inches high, about as long as the saw table, and 3/4" thick is just right. I didn't have a jointer or planer back in the days that I made the wood fence, so I had a local shop plane the board flat. I finished and waxed the board to keep it from warping. The new fence (board) bolts onto the SS fence through the holes already drilled in the latter. The Leichtung hold-downs clamp onto the board. When the hold-downs are set properly, I can rip even really thin stock without risking a kickback or having to carefully count my fingers when I'm done. I don't think there's much difference between the various anti-kickback devices out there on the market. I chose the Leichtung because it was the most inexpensive example of the kind of thing I was looking for. When one of the castings on the device cracked and broke almost a year later, they cheerfully sent me another complete hold-down without charge. The castings themselves are not what I would call industrial quality, but they seem adequate for the casual user. Hope that this is helpful. Cheers --------------------- Phil Matt
Well, I've got to jump in here and respectfully disagree with Phil Matt. You can safely rip anything on the Shopsmith without wheels or feather boards or anything else. I would think you're a lot better of with a high safety-awareness than a trust in some gizmos that may break just when you need them not to! You've got to keep your blade sharp and clean. I've always used something like WD-40 to clean the blade. I was just reading Krenov and he mentions that he uses oven cleaner. I think the worst danger comes with trying to rip wood that is unseasoned or improperly seasoned so that the kerf closes up on you. Well, you can't always avoid even that, but in this case if you have a band saw it would be better to rip on the band saw. The Shopsmith resaw blade is very nice for this. Will Self
have to agree here. You can get a good rip out of the SS, and all the safety devices in the world won't help you if your doing it with your head juxta positioned with your posterior, yet if you keep your mind on what your doing your odds are much better against accident than with any external device you abdicate your caution too. Mike G
Mike & Will ; I agree with your plea for safe thinking and sharp tools . regards Tom W
Just to throw in my $.02, while I agree that one should understand the physics of kick back and operate accordingly, the suggestion that one should do this without hold downs or feather boards should be taken with a grain of salt. No offense intended, but the best of us are not always able to read the stress that MIGHT be contained in a piece of wood. If this internal stress is released at the right time, you might get a nasty kickback. This can happen even if you use absolutely letter perfect technique. I do agree that you should NEVER rely on these aids and just allow your technique to become sloppy. But, I think you need both. Gary
The 'belt and suspenders' approach? <G> All kidding aside, you make a good point. Peter Hansen
Absolutely. I won't quit wearing seat belts because I'm an alert and cautious driver. And I won't quit being a cautious and alert driver because I'm wearing a seat belt. Using my safety tools on my SS table saw in addition to being aware of the dangers and paying attention to what I'm doing definitely increases my chances of keeping all 10 fingers, both eyes and save some bruises, sprains, and nasty cuts. Ralph Day
I've had the model 500 Shopsmith since about 1989. When I first got it, I took one look at the metal saw blade guard, removed it and put it in my attic. Recently there has been talk about the use of guards and I got to thinking about the guard I had removed. After I found it, I gave it a close look to see what could be done to put it back into regular use. It is clear to me that it will not work as it is. Does this guard normally come with a piece on the front that allows the wood to push the guard up as you feed it into the blade (mine has no such piece)? My guard has a couple of holes that suggest this possibility. Someone has suggested that I cut off a section of the guard, leaving a ramp to allow the wood being cut to push up the guard. I'm open to other suggestions/opinions. The bottom (and nose, if I cut the guard) has (will have) a fairly rough finish. What can I do to minimize scratching my work due to the guard sliding up and over it? Is self-adhesive Teflon or plastic tape available that would stick right on? - les
As I recall, the original guard that came with my Mod 500 had a U-shaped piece of wire that formed a sort of ramp attached to the front. Never used it, though. I put the 510 upgrade guard on fairly quickly, as I didn't get any sort of lower blade guard in the mass 'o junk that came with it from the former owner. The new guard works pretty well, but it's a real pain to align with the blade. As a result, I tend to only put it on when I'm ripping more than a couple of pieces. YMMV, Chuck Phillips
FWIW the guard on my SS has a metal loop on the front that lifts the guard as the work piece advances. Or serves as a handle to lift the guard enough to slide the work under the guard. It fits just snugly in the two holes. A little wiggling tug will remove it. I'll bet replacements might be available from SS. Lets see if I can describe it enough to make fabrication of a replacement possible. If you visualize a u-shaped rod 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 inches from the bend to the end of the legs. It is slightly wider at the bend than at the tips of the legs. Looks like 1" outside to outside of the legs and at the widest part it is 1 1/8" outside to outside. The tips are fluted on mine to grip the holes in the guard. The legs have to be spread about 1/8" to match the holes in the guard, so the spring action also helps to keep it in place. You can put it in a vise and bend it to the final shape as described below. Maybe somebody has some tips for working bending rods that will help with this part The final shape:
HTH Mike Melancon
I have a 510, and likewise find it difficult to have the splitter on the saw guard aligned ...stay aligned. Anyone have any good tips to get an aligment that you don't have to fuss with each time you set -up in the table saw mode.
I had immense trouble with the splitter on my 500, until the instructor at the local Shopsmith academy suggested aligning it rough, but leave it floating in its ways, rather than tightening down on the screw. I have had no problems with this. My understanding on the 510 is that blades should be mounted in a special arbor, which has a bearing surface to adjust the riving knife should the quill be extended for micro adjustments. I have no idea one adjusts the riving knife so that it is centered on the blade in the first place; I imagine this is only a real problem if one often switches to blades of different thicknesses or kerfs.
As a lot of 500 owners seem to use the bade guard and have trouble aligning it, I thought I would try to describe how I do it. Mount the guard on the machine keeping the screw that holds it secure slightly loose. Get behind the machine and look straight down the splitter with one eye closed. Alternate your view from one side of the splitter to the other while looking at the blade. I often raise the blade up to full height to make it easier to see. As you look along each side of the splitter, line it up with the side of the blade. The blade may be thicker than the splitter, so the blade may "overhang" a little on each side. Alternating your view three or four times while wiggling the splitter should get it evenly positioned in the middle of the blade. Remember to do this with one eye closed. I can get the guard on and accurately positioned in about 30 seconds. Contrary to some recent discussion on the rec.wood group, I ALWAYS use the guard when ripping or cross cutting with the miter and have never felt that it made using the saw more dangerous, as some have professed. Seems like a ridiculous argument to me. My cutoff table has a plastic cover over the blade that is attached to the front and back rails - it actually has come in handy as a hold-down. I forced in a pair of wedges on top of the wood and the plastic cover held it tight against the surface of the cutoff table. Thomas
I built a simple alignment jig to help align the guard and splitter on my 500. It's just a piece of 3/4" pine about 4" across. I cut a kerf about halfway through it; it's long enough to enclose the blade and the splitter. I push the jig over through the stopped blade (making sure the machine's unplugged!) and into the splitter. I then move the fence over until the jig is parallel to it. This allows me to rough align the guard. I, then, finish the alignment by eye. I'll always make a test cut before starting my cuts. Yes, I always use the guard. The anti-kickback fingers have saved my stomach more than once from a nasty kickback! Frank
I am poor at explaining things in print, but in ref to aligning the splitter with the blade. On my 510 upgrade, the lower blade cover/dust collector that the guard mounts to has a small screw that butts up against the SS headstock housing when the lower guard and blade are installed. You can adjust this screw in or out slightly to achieve near perfect alignment with the blade and splitter. There has been some discussion as to whether to use the guard or not, I used to think I could do some quick ripping without it and after catching a good sized chunk of waste with my stomach that left a bruise for 2 weeks, I decided to use the guard from then on. Its pawls would have stopped that piece of wood. Jack.
Hmmmm, I've had the 510 for 3 years now and I've never aligned the splitter, except initially, maybe I'm missing something but then I've never had a problem. When I go to table saw mode in goes the guard/splitter slick as anything on the SS. Of course I'd be lying if I said I used the guard every time because there are some operations where you can't. But when I'm ripping wood that guard/splitter is in there. I use a standard carbide blade, I've not yet used a thin-kerf type blade. Could you be more descriptive of the misalignment? Is the wood running into the splitter? Are you using a thin-kerf blade?
Paul, on my 510 , the lower saw guard assembly that goes on before the blade is attached, has on the back (headstock) side of it a small threaded screw that can be adjusted in or out and this will align the holder for the splitter and upper guard to the blade. I don't remember if this was a feature on the model 500 or not. Jack.
Hey all. Kevin Hoyt from Colorado Springs, CO here. I'm new to the Shopsmith world. I saw a demo at the local mall, and was very impressed. I am a beginner woodworker. I did it back in school woodshop which I enjoyed, and always meant to get into it more, but never did. Anyway, I talked my wife into allowing me to get one. I have a new SS MARK V on order shipping at the end of the month. Now I never heard of the Shopsmith before, so all I know about is the MARK V that I saw demo'ed, and that is in the literature I have. I have pretty much figured out that the 10ER is the old version which was last made in the 50's. But what is the difference between the MARK V that I ordered and the 500's, and the 510's that I here about upgrading to. If someone could explain this It would help me understand more about what everyone is talking about.
The biggest difference between the 500 & 510 is the table sizes - I believe the motor and bases are basically the same... The retro fit for 500 -> 510 is a $649 upgrade, [$749 in 1997 catalog] but some 500 attachments won't fit the 510 upgrade (per the catalog...table inserts, molder hold downs, some saw arbors....) Best thing to do is get a SS catalog, mine on pg 34 shows a pic of a 500, then upgraded to a 510... The upgrade includes 17 1/2 x 22 table, 510 series rip fence, saw guard with riving knife, miter bar with T-slot washer, carriage with quarter turn lock & hand wheel adj., two floating table adj, 2 telescoping legs, 4 connecting ext tubes, 2 pos lathe rest & some other small stuff.. (above taken from catalog.) I can tell you from my limited exp, that the table extensions & legs are a real help cutting a 4x8 sheet of plywood, however, I would consider a standalone Table saw for the $650 price if I had the room... ( I have a 510 and wouldn't want to try to cut 3/4 birch plywood without the table extensions $45/sheet to expensive to have slipups!) The main thing is the size of the projects you'll be working on, but consider that most plywood projects will start with 4x8.... Rob Mcknight
Having also just bought in January, I'll give this a shot. I'm guessing that what you ordered was a Mark V 510. The 500 and 510 are basically the same machine but the 510 has bigger tables, extensions... The manual that came with mine includes setup info for both 500 & 510's so the diff's are fairly clear. When your's gets there have a lot of fun setting it up! Like you I had done some woodworking in my younger days, but not much recently! (the demo guys don't tell you that setup is a long process - i guess its probably easier than trying to align 5 totally different machines though ) Definitely have a quality combination square ready. You'll use this a lot - and then some more! an extra set of hands comes in handy getting 416 pounds out of the truck also! Mine also came in much faster than planned so get the garage ready tonite! ;^)
The Mark V is the original model of modern Shopsmith (SS) and until the early 1980's was called a MARK V- 500. In the early to mid 1980's the Mark V- 510 was introduced. The main difference between the 500 and the 510 is the table system and price. The motor headstock, and carriage of the machines are identical. The 510 tables are much larger and more versatile for cutting large pieces and panels. IMO, this advantage only (99%) benefits the SS table saw only 1% benefit to the other standard tool setups . I believe for small to medium size projects (less than 18" long crosscuts or 7" rips either the 500 or the 510 will be equivalent. On wider rips and longer crosscuts the table size and fence system of the 510 will offer better accuracy, safety and support. IN ANY CASE, BE SURE TO GET A GOOD CARBIDE TIP COMBO BLADE - NOT THE JUNK BLADE THAT IS STANDARD. For other tool setups such as disc sander, drill press, horizontal boring machine, lathe, the larger tables of the 510 will not provide much benefit at all. In fact setup/tool conversion would perhaps be a little more involved on the 510 if all the extension/floating tables are set up . In addition the 510 takes up more room in your shop than the 500. Now others may disagree, but based on my experience the table saw is the weakest tool of the Shopsmith. Many people agree the table saw is the cornerstone tool of the power wood shop. It seems the smaller table size of the 500 table saw spurned the 510 product as shortcomings in the table saw function must have been an issue to at least some. IMHO the SS table saw, be it a 500 or a 510 is still much inferior to a standalone contractor saw from Delta ($600-750)or JET ($500). My dislikes about the SS table saw is the tilting table versus the conventional tilting blade on a standalone saw, as well as the fence system on a Shopsmith is not as efficient or accurate to use as a dedicated table saw which has a measurement scale on the fence rails. Finally, the construction of the table on a SS does not lend itself to as close a tolerance in terms of keeping the blade parallel to either the miter gauge or the fence because the table support system is not nearly as resistant to deflection during an actual cut as the trunnions on a standalone saw. Lest you think I'm flaming SS, let me also say that all of the other tools on the standard SS are excellent, especially the drill press. I wood put my SS (model 500) against any other standalone tool for the type of projects I do which are furniture, cabinetry and your basic projects found in the popular magazines. Before buying a separate table saw I did a good number of small to medium size projects using SS 500 table saw, including kitchen cabinets. After completing the latter project I considered doing the 510 upgrade, but opted for a standalone saw instead which actually cost less than the upgrade kit and is far superior. I'd suggest your 500 will be excellent for nearly all of your projects including table saw applications. I never ran into a situation where the 500 table saw caused me anything more than a mental challenge and extra time (in some cases some fear, too) when making cuts on rather large pieces. I'm fairly sure the 510 would not have been all that much better than my 500 except on wider rips. I'm not sure how much more the 510 sells for than the 500, but I think going for either one is a good move for the beginner. You can always add a conventional table saw later if you have room. I might also add that the other SS big accessories I have such as the 4" jointer and 6" belt sander are excellent for the type of projects I do. I found the SS 12" planer to be excellent quality, but too expensive for my tastes and opted for a 12" Delta instead at less than 1/2 the cost. IMHO the SS band saw is an excellent tool, but again found that a standalone tool was better value in my situation. Good luck, Ed
Just one minor correction to the 500 vs. 510 question. The carriages on these units are NOT the same. You can't use the 500 table in the 510 carriage.
The 555001 Carbide combo blade is now a standard. The "JUNK" blade sent out prior to this change is not a junk blade but a beginning woodworker's blade and was only meant to be used for that purpose.
A larger work surface comes in useful for many other woodworking projects especially if you work with wider boards. I tend not to agree with the comment of the 510 talking up more room. If you were to compress everything down, it uses the same amount of space as the 500. True change overs can be more time consuming but one has to weight the advantages of the set ups one can get too.
True many people think that the table saw is the Mark V's least productive function, but here too one must think of the benefits of the machine and the amount of room and money one has.
I can appreciate Ed's comments for his situation and his products. The 30 day Money back guarantee allows one to test a product to see if it fits their needs. how many other companies let you use a product and then send it back if you don't like it with no questions asked or pressure to keep it?
Just want to get those small errors corrected. EHull
Although the setup process is long for the Mark V, the manual is first-rate. I got my model 510 the day before the temperature dropped into the single digits for an extended period (my shop is my unheated garage). I managed to setup my new toy, but was unable to use it safely. So, I did the next-best thing and read both the manual and the copy of "Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone" (PWTWE) that came with my machine. It was time very well spent. PWTWE, although old, is a _wonderful_ resource, the single best source of printed Shopsmith lore anywhere. One point. The procedure for squaring the table relative to the quill calls for you to mount the saw blade as the reference. In my case it took a few days for me to realize that the saw blade was _warped_. I later discovered that the sanding disk is a better choice for this purpose. In the end, I bought an alignment gauge made from two precision machined aluminum bars, which works very well. Another suggestion is to order at least one 5/8" saw arbor, so that you can use standard 10" saw blades such as the Forrest Woodworker II, which I highly recommend. Peter Hansen
On a more encouraging note (though the mention of the table size is valid), the versatility, capacity, and accuracy of either model table saw can be greatly enhanced with the construction of a cut off table. I've found that the table used in conjunction with stop blocks takes a lot of the worry out of using the saw. The cut through the base of the cutoff table gives you immediate indications if your not cutting squarely (I rarely have to make adjustments after setting up for the cut off table), and the stop block gives you the repetitive length cuts with great accuracy. As a further note, by extending all the tables off the right of the saw table, you can get an amazingly long board cross cut. To avoid a lot of slop though I like to clamp the middle table to the table that sits at the end of the saw, then extend the last table out past that (Does that make sense? Oh Well you had to have been there). Mike G.
I just wanted to make a comment about the use of the Mark V as a table saw. In my case I bought the Shopsmith to augment an existing 10" Craftsman belt-drive, cast iron saw. I have found that the Mark V is my preferred saw when sawing small pieces of wood for boxes, small cabinets, etc. The reason is that I can get closer to the action without leaning forward over the table, also the greater height of the Mark V table is more comfortable for me (I'm over six feet). I also like the ability to 'sneak up' on a fence-to-blade setting using the quill. This is also useful when cutting dadoes that are wider than the maximum width of the dado blade. No regular table saw can do this. I do agree that the non-carbide blade formerly supplied with Mark V's deserves to be called 'junk', in my case it was warped. Peter Hansen
I would like to make a somewhat unusual suggestion regarding "upgrades" to the 500. I was able to get an extra standard 500 table and tubes from someone in this group that upgraded to the 510. I mounted that table on the opposite side of the motor head from my standard table (left side). I also got an extra 9" wide top that I bolted to the right side of the "main" table (the one that the blade projects through). With the original small tables on the far ends I now have a very wide, very strange looking SS. I can do much wider rips than usual because of the extra 9" on the right of the blade. I made a cutoff table that rides in one slot on each of the adjustable table tops on either side of the motor unit. Its a big one - about 40 inches wide and 30 inches deep. I got a really great deal on these parts, but if you price them new in the SS catalog, it still comes to much less than a complete 510 upgrade, and you don't have any of the problems described above about longer time for changeovers. As usual I'm not sure if this description is clear, so if there is any interest in what I've described - ask for further clarification. Thomas
I bought my 510 end of Jan '96 and still received the "beginning woodworker's blade". It might be worth noting that SS made the change to the carbide blade end of March '96 per customer service. Guess I missed the boat! (wonder if the price went up though? ;)
Prior to the introduction of the Mark V - 510, the Mark V was just known as a "Mark V". In fact, the introductory advertising for the 510 referred to it as the "Mark V Pro". T Almy
The mark V 510 which I saw demo'ed had a wooden shelf between the legs which handily kept up with all the assorted pieces which are currently in a cardboard box in the corner. Anybody has plans or suggestions for building one of these? Also need input or plans for building a storage shelf for accessories IE jointer, band saw, planer (hopefully, my better half will let me get more toys!) I'm looking for something that is sturdy that the attachments could be 'dropped' into - just as they sit on the SS? ;) TIA - Rob
I'm betting the thing you saw is the accessory shelf they sell in the catalog. I think it runs about $65-$75. You could easily build your own from a good piece of 2x10, I imagine. I actually bought one of the things (hey! Tax refunds are to be spent on silly stuff, right?) and was kind of disappointed. The wood isn't the greatest, and SS forgot to include the hardware pack that was supposed to come with it. Granted, I managed to scrounge up the right-size lag screws out of a jar in the basement, but you'd think they could manage to get it right. I'm wondering if there aren't greater variations across the production history than SS talks about. I have a very early Magna-produced Mark V, and some of the accessories in today's catalog, things that _should_ fit, just don't. Like this shelf. It comes with one hole pre-drilled. You're supposed to mark and drill the other hole. Well, there's no way the shelf would even come close to fitting. I had to put in a new beginning hole, almost a half-inch from where SS had drilled theirs. Similar problems with the hold-down clamp retro-fit for the miter square. My miter square was just enough bigger I had to take the whole silly thing to pieces in order to get all the screws started. Then I had to take up the slack, _very_ carefully. And the slot in the little extension doohickey that lets you use the miter square with larger pieces of wood is a good bit wider than the slot in my table. Maybe the patterns have worn over 40 years? Or maybe somebody needs to calibrate the machine tools? Best, Bob Seith
Bob, I think you're right to point these things out. I'm sure Shopsmith wants to continue to deliver quality products. I was just thinking today about my old Craftsman table saw, and how I wouldn't even think of trying to find replacement parts for it through Sears. By the way, as for the table extension, you could buy one of those strips of the slick heavy plastic, I think they come with adhesive on one side, and put that in the slot to narrow it. Will Self
Rob; Try to build a top on it. That shelf makes a great saw-dust collector! You can get one from SS directly, but building one should be fairly easy. Hope this helps.... Randy. (Mine are in a box too!!!!)
If it helps, my cardboard box made it to a shelf of it's own. MikeG. (mtcowboy@marsweb.com)
I have a shelf on my Shopsmith. First, It was some sort of intelligence test to figure out exactly which accessory went where. There is no map for the various cutouts. Luckily, I has an old catalog which had a picture of the shelf with all of the accessories in place. Even though, I'm still not completely sure what goes where. The next time I see one of Shopsmith's demos, I'm going to try to get a picture of how they've got it set up. With respect to the dust problem, I have a solution I've never seen written up anywhere else. I keep a 3" paint brush with my dust collector at all times. To clean my Shopsmith, I use the dust collector hose freehand with the paintbrush. I learned this trick a long time ago when I worked on tube televisions. My boss used a vacuum and paintbrush to remove the dust that built up inside the set. BTW, this trick makes it easy to vacuum dust from any 'difficult' surface. Peter Hansen
When did you buy yours? I got mine this winter, and there are two diagrams on the back of the instructions/installation sheet, showing the arrangement of tools for both the 500 and the 510. If you ask SS Customer Service, I'm sure they'd send you a copy. I intend to laminate the sheet and hang it on the wall, right alongside the speed chart. Best, Bob Seith
The 10ER has a 3-step pulley for changing speeds. The (photo)copy of the owners manual that I have says nothing about the procedure for changing speeds. Two obvious choices come to mind: 1) loosen the two set screws in the headstock that hold the two tubes (which hold the motor mounting plate), take the tension off the belt by (somehow) lifting the motor, move the belt, ... 2) force the belt from one step to the other. (1) is a pain, partially because (in my case) after loosening the screws the tubes still don't want to slide up into the headstock. Maybe a little TLC is in order. (2) sounds like a bad idea for the bearings and the belt, although it may be OK if the belt is loose enough (although a sufficiently loose belt could cause other problems). Currently I do (1), and I've replaced the left-hand set screw with a screw with a 2 or 3 inch knob, so I only need the Allen wrench for the other one. (Replacing the right-hand one with a knob would interfere with lathe tool rest operations.) Any definitive answers out there? Jim Diamond
We have written information on the 10ER speed changer we can mail a copy to you if you give us your mailing address. Sincerely Shopsmith Customer Service Tina
I have two 10ERs, with one that has been in use pretty regularly since 1957 and my dad and then me have always used choice #2, Craig Deller
I know that Shopsmith has a sheet about the old 10 or 10er speed changer. I don't recall anything about a 3 step pulley though. Have you called their tech line to see what they have? E Hull
As most of you know from my post on how I spent my afternoon, it is maintenance time in the Glennon shop. Sharpening, honing, aligning, sweeping in those cracks and crevices that never seem to get cleaned.
In the course of this feverish activity I sat down with my SS in it's table saw configuration to check alignment and make sure my cross cut box was still square.
Now for the puzzled part. My table is flat (except for a slight dimple where I loosened the wrong lock in the drill press mode (this knob is now, of course, painted red). Mounted during the check up was my SS carbide tipped combination blade. What I found (I had been bothered by an occasional and very small inaccuracy in some of my cuts), was that the vertical squareness of the blade to the table top was different from the left side to the right side of the blade. The left side (with the dimple believe it or not) set up proving to be the accurate one.
A straight edge across the blade shows no bow or deformity in the blade, so I am a bit puzzled by this discrepancy. Anyone got any ideas? Obviously to avoid the minor errors I've had before I'll be making my set ups from the left side, but, this slight aberration is going to bug the hell out of me (my wife mentioned something about being anal retentive, but, I was to wrapped up in the problem to pay much attention).
Thanks in advance Mike G. (mtcowboy@marsweb.com) Lolo Mt.
P.S. I know someone will mention it so I assure you now that my square was not resting on the carbide tip or any offset in the teeth
I noticed the exact same thing awhile back when I went through some calibration. At the time, I just chalked it up to an inaccurate square. I went through some head scratching after checking to make sure the table was flat and that was the best I could come up with. I'll be interested in the group's best guess at this one. Regards, John Metzner
Thanks for the reply John, had the same thought about my squares myself so I started to check them against each other. I should have never have done that. only found two that agreed with each other enough to satisfy me. Guess its time to start saving for a Starret engineering square. Thanks again Mike G
Just a fairly un-educated stab - but try changing arbour - The auto mechanics routine(no insults intended) sometimes proves effective. Bart
Of course, this is a corollary to an Old Chinese Proverb (TM): A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure. Don't think that had anything to do with woodworking. However, in commiseration with the original poster: On the weekend I removed a worn-out piece of sandpaper from my sanding disk (the original aluminum (?) version). I put a straight edge across the disk and discovered that the disk is about 1/16" out of flat (the center is higher than the edges), which may explain why I can never sand anything square with it. (And no, I do not have the disk that is supposed to be conical.) I hate to spring for a new one, given the price and the current exchange rate. I'm sort of tempted to try turning it down, lathe-style... Jim Diamond
Had the same problem a number of years ago. Also suspected my square. I checked seven different units against each other. Including carpenters, engineering and woodworker types. Nothing seemed to agree. Got disgusted and purchased a Bridge City Master Try Square. I threw out all the squares that were too far off and have not had this problem since. If you want to have some fun visit your local woodworking store and try their various squares against each other. Then ask the Salesperson which one is correct.
Hi, I'm new to this list and fairly new to Shopsmith. I purchased an older model last summer and am only now starting to use it. When I use the SS in the lathe mode there is some vibration in the stock when I apply a tool with any force. I do know the value of dampening any vibration and how this can improve the quality of the cut with turning tools. Has anybody had any experience with filling the SS tubes with sand or cement? I can't bolt the SS to the floor of my garage but I'm open to any other ideas. Will Simpson
My guess is that it's your technique, not the SS that's the problem. You shouldn't have to use much force when cutting if your tools are sharp and you're rubbing the bevel. If you're roughing down a large piece you will experience some vibration depending on the size of the blank, but it sounds like the vibration comes up anytime. You might also get some chatter if you're doing center work and the piece is long. What's happening there is the middle of the piece is flexing/bowing as you cut. The solution is to offer counter-force with your left hand as you cut w/your right. That is, wrap your fingers around the back of the piece to act as a backstop as you cut (that is, if you're using a skew). Take lighter cuts. I've heard of people hanging sandbags from the ways - I don't think filling the way tubes will add enough weight to help. If you did do something like that, I'd hate to have to be the one to put it in drill press mode! Hope this helps... ...Kevin
Hmmm. Has anybody ever messed with using counterweights for putting the SS in drill press mode? It seems like it could be quite handy, although one would have to lift the counterweights to get them in place, but if you got counterweights that were half the weight of the headstock, you would be spreading the weight out over two lifts instead of one . . . Peter Hernes
I really wouldn't go the sand route at all. If you think about it, the act of turning the stock to round is an automatically balancing it. initially, if your centers aren't in the exact middle, you will have some vibration from the unbalanced stock, but, by turning it down you provide an equal radius all around the stock. As someone else mentioned, if you have to press hard to cut your stock your problem is more than likely a technique problem. A sharp skew or gouge should need very little pressure to cut your stock if applied properly. Besides, if, for some reason, the vibration is in the stock itself, extra weight in the way tubes or anywhere else will not Help your problem. It would stop the machine from 'walking' away from you if the vibration was that bad, but, would do nothing to stop your stock from flexing and ruining your cut. The way I see it. Mike G.
I think the solution to vibration is to build forms around the Shopsmith and pour concrete to encase the machine up to the ways on which the headstock slides. Of course, if you then want to change the position of the headstock, or put the SS in vertical position, you will have to chip away the concrete and then pour new concrete. Probably a good idea to keep several extra sacks of ready-mix in the workshop for this purpose. If anyone needs plans for the forms to build around the SS, I have some that I can mail to you. No charge for the plans but please enclose $150.00 for shipping and handling. This is also a good opportunity to do something about the paperwork that is accumulating on your desk. Just enclose it in some 2-inch plumbing pipe and put that in the concrete when you pour. Will Self
Will; It is graduation week down here , and there is lots giddiness in the air. When you have finished pouring the concrete cofferdam for your SS, pour any left over concrete onto bowl shaped holes in the back yard. When dry, these can be mounted on the faceplate with double sided tape. these bowl blanks can then be scraped with tungsten carbide tools. I make the tools by brazing carbide tips to old files or sections of bar. If you haven't concreted in the ways, remember to protect them from the resulting dust. polish with 600 grit paper, & some wax and hey presto a Mothers day planter. Keep turning and have fun . Tom
Thanks Will for the concrete encasement plans (the check is in the mail) and thanks to everyone else for your tips. The vibration I am experiencing is very minor and is present all the time even after trueing the stock and without applying any tool to the piece. The vibration does seem to go away completely if I apply pressure to the ways. Someone had mentioned thin rubber pads on bottom of the legs and hanging sand bags from the ways. I think I'll try that. Will Simpson
You might also look into replacing the spindle if you have a pre '84 SS. The spindle (or whatever it's called) only had one bearing on it, while the new ones have two. I had a fair amount of runout on mine until I did. When I replaced it, it turned out to be bent even! That could be similar to your problem. The spindle is in the catalog and not too hard to replace; if I can, anybody can. Spendy tho... ...km
Will ; Have you checked that all 4 feet of the SS are making contact with the floor? 2. ARE all the set screws for the upper and lower way tubes tight? Is the end lock for the upper way tubes locked down? If these are all ok, I would then check the quill bearings and shaft for runout.. Good luck Regards Tom
Tom - Thanks for your great suggestions and when I get home tonight I'll check them out. How would I go about checking quill shaft runout? Will
Will, do you get any vibration if nothing is mounted on the headstock and the unit is turned on? Do you get vibration when just a faceplate with no stock attached, is on the headstock and the unit running? SS faceplates are not machined to a fine tolerance IMHO. Also I wonder if both your way tubes are tightened down in the end frames, this helps to brace the headstock a bit. Some vibration will be present when turning even when your work seems symmetrical, due to slight variations in the density of the wood. I also have a Record 48 " lathe and built a rack out of 2x4s and MDF which I then used to store numerous pieces of turning stock, this served to make that lathe much nicer, although it already was awfully smooth to begin with. Jack.
Will; I use a dial indicator clamped to the tube to check for runout. Have you had any success with the check list we sent? Regards Tom
A while back I used the SS as an overhead router. I used the drill chuck to hold the bit and did some simple groves with a straight bit. I have been planning to try using the SS to do some more elaborate routing and thought I should get some input from a few of the 26? experts out there. Is it OK to use the drill chuck to hold a router bit? I've looked at the bit holders for routing and they seem to hold the bit with the same single point set screw found everywhere else on the SS. This makes it necessary to buy both the 1/4 and 1/2 and precludes any other sizes ( I have some 3/8 bits designed for metal work). Are the bits sold by SS specially designed to work with the set screw (i.e., do they have a flat spot for the screw to press against? Any experiences with using the SS as a router would be appreciated. I do not have the speed increaser, so I am limited to the fastest speed on the SS (what is that speed anyway?). Thomas
I've got the Router attachment (1/2" collet, plastic guard, 4 bits...) Seems to work okay... I don't have any experience with anything else though... (and not much with this) some previous threads have discussed the 'slow' speeds compared to good routers. I also had a problem routing some wood which had minor thickness inconsistencies. A router table would not have presented the problems I had... (its entirely likely and very probable that I didn't know what I was doing at the time <g>)
I would recommend against doing any but the most light routing applications with the Jacobs chuck; such chucks are not designed to handle much in the way of side loading. Also, you will most likely be routing at a speed much higher than that which would be recommended for a drill bit of the diameter typical of router bits. There are several things one could do: Have a machinist reduce the shank of your 3/8 bits to 1/4. Have a machinist build a reduction chuck. Look for a milling machine collet chuck and a set of collets that will fit on, or can be adapted for, the Mark V spindle. Do the work that requires the 3/8 shank cutters on a milling/drilling machine, if it can be configured to spin adequately fast. (Also, take care about introducing sawdust to a machine designed to mill metal. Typically these machines have large amounts of oil and other lubricants available; fibrous materials like wood tend to gum up really quickly) Shopsmith's router bits (at least the ones I have) do not have a flat spot; there is a very close fit between the chucks and the shanks. I'm sure the Shopsmith engineers considered very carefully whether they would be required.
I've tried doing a little routing with the SS. The biggest problem is that it only turns up to about 5000 rpm. This just isn't fast enough for most standard router bits. You might be able to get away with it if you take small bites and feed slowly. At this time, the only router-like operations I do are cutting slots with an end mill (designed for metal cutting, works great on wood.) Chuck Phillips
use my SS 510 for overhead routing frequently (also use it in the boring position with router bits at times). Works fine for me, however, I use the SS router bit "whatever you call it". Somewhere I read that this is a bit easier on the quill lessening side thrust or some such thing. I know the above is couched in some very technical terms, but's it's early here, so I hope you'll forgive me. What it boils down to is that it works fine as a router and I use it more often then I use my router table since it allows me to see the cut while I'm making it. Mike G.
I have used the SS drill chuck as a router collet. It works OK but is not really advised as the drill chuck is not designed to withstand the added side thrust. I have done a fair bit of overhead pin and pattern routing which has worked out well however you must remember that cut depth is registered from the top of the table. Edge routing is not as easy with the SS as it is with a router table (or the shaper). The profile is referenced from the top of the table so that any slight variation in wood thickness or hold down pressure shows up as variations in depth of cut. Rick Campeau
If anyone is considering mounting a router horizontally I can offer the following experience. I had table routed two lengths of curly koa into trim molding for a hall table but neglected to do both pieces at the same time. The slight difference between setups was enough to cause a noticeable misalignment at fit up. The only way I could see to salvage the expensive stock required gluing additional stock on one edge and running it through a horizontally mounted router with the bit above the stock. (and doing both pieces with the same setup!). Roughly, this is how I did it. I was able to mill down a small bit of the rib casting under the saw table and drill it for my router's base screw pattern. I also made up a plywood throat plate for it. For the work surface make up a plywood table to mount in place of the narrow end table. A second saw table was what I actually used. (thanks to Will Smith). Now the only problem is the router will be facing the wrong way. To reverse the table position drive "in" the roll pin holding the shaft that the upper tubes pivot on until it falls out. Support block the upper tubes and drive out the tube pivot shaft, preferably with a brass rod. Remove the tube end casting and you can now slide the table support off the tubes and turn it around. Put the end casting back on and reinstall the pivot shaft. Leave the rollpin out until finished and put back to normal configuration. I've left out much of the small details for brevity. It's a bit of work but once setup it worked beautifully. Both tables have the height adjustment; the table with the router can move along the tubes. The headstock quill can also be used as a home position or depth reference. The stock fence can be used to clamp fixtures to. There's not enough clearance for the table to tilt back to level; but when needed, one could remove just the table top and mount it on something for a sturdy router table with a rip fence. If your apprehensive about drilling your saw table you could probably make up a substitute using plastic or metal plate on plywood. (my SS was purchased quite used so I have no qualms about approaching it with center punch in hand.) Hope this is of some use to this group. -George
I've tried doing a little routing with the SS. The biggest problem is that it only turns up to about 5000 rpm. This just isn't fast enough for most standard router bits. You might be able to get away with it if you take small bites and feed slowly. At this time, the only router-like operations I do are cutting slots with an end mill (designed for metal cutting, works great on wood.) Chuck Phillips
Yep. I've also found that it seems to go easier and get a little smoother finish if I rough out the slot by repeatedly plunging the mill along the length, and then taking a couple of passes at full depth to clean up. Chuck
Just bought my third hex key, not too long ago, to replace the one I laid down on the work bench right where I could find it. I think they go to the same place my socks go once the hit the dryer. Anyway, while wandering around the hardware store I spotted a little magnetic dish to that was meant to go on your car's bumper to hold small parts while you are working on it. Guess what, it sticks nicely to the leg of my Shopsmith and holds all my hex keys right where I need them the most. Try it you'll like it Mike G.
I just stick the commonly used key in one of the two holes at the left end of the SS. I stick the chuck key in the other.
I've been lurking on this list for a number of months and have enjoyed it immensely. This is my first venture into the world of active participation. I've owned a Shopsmith (Mark V-500) for many years but haven't had as much time as I would like to use it. Mostly home repair and home improvement stuff. I'm finding more time now to do projects and am trying to set up my shop the way I want it. Just finished paneling it with peg-board. Next I want to build a classic woodworking bench. One of the things I need to do is obtain the tools and learn the skills of sharpening, especially chisels, jointer knives, and drill bits. Saw blades seem too tough right away, but maybe eventually. One thing I don't have is a bench grinder. But looking in the "Woodworking For Everyone" book, I see a grinding wheel mounted on the Shopsmith. They show it two ways: 1) with a home-built hood and using the lathe guide, and 2) using the saw table and a dado insert. I think I want to try it. Does anyone have any recommendations, tricks, gotcha's on doing this? Should I build the hood or use the table and dado insert? Or both? Any recommendations on grinding wheels; brands, materials, sizes, grits, etc. I assume I will use a 5/8" universal arbor. I've also got my eye on a 1000/6000 combination sharpening stone. Any thoughts? Larry Rogers
Howdy Lurking Larry welcome out of the lurkers closet. I'm going to be absolutely no help to you here, just want to pass on a thought about grinding. I sharpen ALL my tools by hand. Grinders (any grinder) are great for doing just that GRINDING. You grind something when it's bevel is shot, or you've dropped the chisel on the concrete floor and properly screwed it up (I'm real good at this maneuver myself). Most tools when bought need work, flattening the backs honing and such, but, usually NOT grinding. Personally I'd think about investing in some oil stones or diamond stones first and learn how to use them. It'll be awhile before you wear things down to where you'll need to do any grinding. And, yes a grinder is a handy thing to have and use when appropriate. And good old SS makes a fine one. But, the last time I used my grinder was when I needed a skew chisel to clean up the inside corners of some stopped dado's. I ran down to uncle Sam Walmart and got a couple of his 1/2 inch chisels (very low cost) then GROUND the skew on them. Then I SHARPENED them with my oil stones. Mike G. (mtcowboy@marsweb.com) Lolo MT. p.s. If I were to buy stones today I would get diamond stones.
I like this topic. I recommend two EZlap diamond stones from Highland Hardware (mail-order), the 600 and 1200 and their 8000 Japanese water stone to finish. Best price I've found for those items and I can sharpen fast and end with a shaving sharp edge on my chisels. I also really like my Veritas jig set to hold the chisels (and plane blades) and adjust the angle. Thomas
Thanks for the advice. I guess I didn't word my original request properly. I need to sharpen as well as grind. I HAVE dropped some chisels, badly nicked, deformed the bevels, etc. I want to restore them instead of buying new ones. Also the grinding wheel should be useful for sharpening axes, lawn mowers, etc. Also to do some minor reshaping of metal. What I want to know is if anybody can recommend certain wheels or has any tips on using them on a Shopsmith. I also want to acquire some stones for sharpening. I've looked at a combo 1000/6000 Japanese water stone. It costs about $33 at the local tool peddler.
If you haven't done it yet I highly recommend the double bearing quill upgrade to your Shopsmith and the guide bearing upgrade to your band saw. I just added these to mine last night and what a difference!! The old quill had developed a lot of run-out such that a drilled hole was about 2/64" too big and hard to hit the spot. With the new quill its dead center accurate. Cost about $85. Also my old band saw had developed a lot of racket in the blade guide bearings. They have an upgrade to replace all three bearings which I added. It now runs smoother and more quiet than ever. Cost about $23. Larry Rogers
Just to clear up a question. I think we've talked about this before. However, I can't recall the answer. When did Shopsmith start putting in the double bearing quills? And, if the date is close to the age of my machine, how can I tell if it has a double bearing quill? Third, for all of us that are mechanically challenged and yet love to make designer fire wood, how long does it take to swap the quills and how tough a job is it? Thanks, George Teachman
The box the quill came in said that it was for all Mark V machines prior to serial number 190,000. I don't know when they changed but I suspect it was when they started producing the model 510 (I've got a 500).
The instructions were 4 or 5 simple steps and well illustrated. First you remove the name plate on the depth stop side and the set screw on top (mine was under some putty). Then you remove the old quill by advancing it fully and lock the depth stop to keep the spring from unwinding. Then you must reach inside with a hefty tool (they say to use a big screw driver but I wound up using a small wrecking bar), through the name plate hole, and pry off the nylon drive gear. This was the toughest part as the gear is held with an internal ring and takes quite a bit of force to get it off. Don't worry about damaging it as it's being replaced. Then you reverse the steps with the new drive gear, forcing it on, then the new quill and lock it in with the set screw. Total time was an hour or so. You could do it quicker but I'm a klutz and due to slow and methodical work habits I still have all ten thumbs. Larry Rogers (since 1982)
I recall that when the dual bearing quill came out it said for machines produced before 1984. Apparently some time in '84 they must have hit the 190,000 mark or else they started the new quill models there for easy distinction (which is probably more likely). Mine is an '81, and I did the upgrade last year. My only regret about it is that I didn't do it when the dang thing cost $60 (give or take) rather than $90! My original spindle shaft was bent - whether from vigorous use or a manufacturing defect I don't know. It didn't seem to make too much difference as a saw, but it made it really hard to turn tight fitting lids on the lathe! Now if they don't fit I only have my self to blame. Or my knives. Yeah, that's it - my knives were dull. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it officer... ...Kevin
If you have a better answer to any of these questions, please send it to the keeper of the FAQ, Tom Almy for inclusion. Thank you!